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Finally a finished project!

Josefly | Posted in Photo Gallery on

Edited: NO, don’t look at the photos. They’re way too big. I’ll do something about that and re-post later. Sorry.

I copied this handbag from a store-bought one, as a birthday gift for my DIL. When my grandson saw it he wanted to make a bag too, out of paper, staples, and tape. He’s 6. I was surprised at how he engineered a purse from those materials – there were pockets everywhere, inside and outside, and a matching wallet with credit-card pockets and an id-slot.

On this bag, the lining is too large, though cut the same size as the outer shell. On the next lining I make I’ll take wider seams. I’m afraid the quality of the photos is not up to par, but…

Edited 7/30/2008 2:44 pm ET by Josefly


  1. NewHampshireRobin | | #1

    I think it looks great. Your DIL should love it.

    1. Josefly | | #2

      Thanks. Trying again with smaller photos. The flash makes the lining photo look brown/grey, but otherwise the pockets wouldn't show up. The fabric is actually black with grey print.

      Edited 7/30/2008 3:52 pm ET by Josefly

      1. JanF | | #6

        I think this looks very professional - practical but with a sweet, girlie twist - well done!

        1. Josefly | | #9

          Oh, I blush. Thank you.

      2. rodezzy | | #7

        Excellent bag and workmanship.  One of these days, I'll make a bag. giggle.  You guys are inspiring.  Please forgive me for not understanding, but who is DIL?

        Edited 7/31/2008 8:56 am ET by rodezzy

        1. Josefly | | #10

          Sorry for the confusion...I shouldn't use the shorthand because I'm so often in the dark when others use it. DIL = daughter-in-law.Thank you for the compliments. Makes me want to make a few more bags, before I forget how!

      3. MaryinColorado | | #28

        wow!  Very proffessionally done and it's beautiful.  What a great gift!  Love the purse and especially that organized liner!  Mary

  2. User avater
    JunkQueen | | #3

    Hey, if your DIL doesn't like it, PM me, and I'll send you my address so you can send it to me. I like everything about it. The workmanship is superb.

    1. Josefly | | #4

      You are too kind. Thank you. Now I've done one, I think the process will go much faster. It's been too long since I tried something without a pattern or instructions spelling out the order of steps... You know what they say about "Use it or lose it?" I need to use my mind more.

  3. User avater
    ThreadKoe | | #5

    Great Bag Josefly. Practical and attractive. Your DIL will love it. but where is the pic from your grandson's project? lol I would have loved to see it also. Cathy

    1. Josefly | | #8

      Thank you. Here are the photos of my grandson's creations. I wish I had photos of the wallets, too.

      1. User avater
        ThreadKoe | | #11

        Thank you, I think that it is just as important to show off the young people's efforts also. He did a wonderful job. You better watch out tho, he might soon be getting into your fabric stash! Cathy

        1. Josefly | | #13

          I think my grandson would've insisted on using my stash had we been in my home at the time. Thankfully we were on vacation.However, he's come to my house a few times this summer for "Grandmama and Boppa Camp." One of the things he wanted to do "at camp" was "sew a quilt." Well, I'm no quilter, and couldn't imagine that we could actually take on such a large project, but in talking to him about what he wanted to do, I realized that he wanted to do some piecing, so I managed to talk him into a smaller project, and he came up with the idea of a pieced placemat. Next step was to draw and color a placemat the way he wanted it to look. He wanted pieces about 3 inches square, sewn directly together, with a blue border around the edges of the placemat. He picked the fabrics, I cut them into strips, and he sewed the strips together on my machine. Then I cut the resulting "striped" fabric into strips running the other way, so we now have strips of squares. (I did all the cutting using a rotary cutter, because I didn't trust him not to cut off a finger. But he's great on the sewing machine. Mind you, I have to put the machine pedal on a footstool so he can reach it - but he managed to sew those strips together with much straighter seams than I imagined possible.)He's coming back on Monday for our last camp session before school starts, and we're hoping to get these strips of squares arranged and sewn together, and put the backing on. I've cut the backing large enough so that the edges can fold over to make the border on the front, and I went ahead and pressed the folds so hopefully he'll be able to stitch that down, too. I have some fleece to sandwich between the pieced front and the backing, and he wants to do some decorative stitching on the seams joining the squares. I'm a little worried about the layers shifting in this step, but it doesn't have to be perfect, right?

          1. User avater
            ThreadKoe | | #15

            I think at this point, a finished project that He is happy with is the goal. He will figure out what he can do better next time, with some encouragement. I always point out the really good stuff, then ask where the child thinks they could do better. This avoids the "feeling picked apart" with the little ones, and encourages them to continue. Adults handle criticism of their work much better. He sounds like a creative little charmer. Cathy

          2. Ralphetta | | #16

            I'm enjoying reading about your encouraging your grandson in his sewing adventures. He sounds very creative and I'm sure he will remember all your help, he's a fortunate little boy.I couldn't help but remember how unsupporting my ex-mother-in-law was when my daughter was about his age. When asked what she wanted for Christmas, my daughter immediately said, "boards and blue paint!" Her grandmother "corrected" her and told her little girls didn't play with tools and boards. My daughter was very reasonable and explained that she had a lot of dolls but wanted to build some things. As I listened to her, I was very impressed with how well she'd thought it all out.Grandma kept tsk, tsking and didn't change her mind, but her grandpa got her boards and Santa brought some tools.

          3. Josefly | | #17

            How fortunate for your daughter that she didn't automatically buy into everything an adult (even a loved adult) told her, and that she had other adults to help her explore her interests. Funny how we can get so hung up on what's "appropriate" for one gender and not the other.This is one of the best things about being a grandparent. Isn't it fascinating to watch a child make choices, and to see the preferences and abilities they seem to be born with?

          4. Ralphetta | | #18

            She'd been told constantly by us that girls and boys should be allowed to try the same things, so she wasn't easily intimidated. I was really happy that her grandpa didn't see it as weird like her grandma, (he bought her a train set!) She had tested really high on the spatial part of testing and was extremely good at puzzles. According to all we had read, that ability was usually lost by girls when classes let the boys monopolize the blocks, etc., and sent the girls to play dolls. We didn't want that to happen. Fortunately, views have changed a lot since those days.My MIL would not have let your grandson sew, but I think my FIL would have thought it was fine. She was a nice lady but I had a terrible time communicating with someone who honestly and truly could not understand why anyone would prefer a less than perfect original drawing, etc., to a perfect paint-by-number.Yeah for grandmas like you.

          5. Gloriasews | | #19

            I'm going to butt in here, as this is very interesting.  Good for your daughter in not being intimidated into doing something that she wasn't interested in  when she was young.  What are her interests now, as far as hobbies & career go?  Is she a handywoman?  Just curious :)


          6. Ralphetta | | #20

            She deals with people and environmental issues rather than staying with math. Our primary interest when she was little was that whether or not she continued with math,etc., was going to be her choice, not something decided for her. She was quick to learn basic mechanics so she could save money on her car and now she and her husband are trying to build a hybrid car but they're having trouble finding people to answer their questions and money, of course, is an issue. She helps run a community garden in an urban area.Sewing is not a high priority with her. She likes vintage things and quite some time ago I told her about Gatherings, so that she could come here for help if she couldn't reach me with her emergency calls. (There's a big difference in time zones.) Things have changed a lot and it's nice to see that girls just take it for granted that they will be allowed to participate in a broader range of things. And of course, boys too, because that's what started this discussion.

          7. Gloriasews | | #22

            I'm impressed with what your daughter has done with her life - & building a hybrid car is a big undertaking!  She'll also receive a lot of satisfaction from running the community garden & being involved in environmental issues (probably a lot of frustration, too :).

            I, too, am glad that times have changed enough that young people can do whatever they are interested in, whether it's 'gender appropriate' or not.  Gender does NOT make a difference anymore, thank heavens, for the most part, but there will always be people who don't approve.  There are so many women now doing mechanics, appliance repair, law, house building, medicine, piloting aircraft, driving 18-wheelers, plumbing, etc.   That is as it should be - a good thing.  My niece is an engineer; my sons & nephews like to cook & bake - & it's all acceptable in today's world.  Our sons & daughters have way more opportunities available to them than we did.


            Edited 8/4/2008 5:13 pm by Gloriasews

          8. sewelegant | | #23

             Your comment on your granddaughter's liking for puzzles (etc.) reminded me of a thought I had just the other day: I think one reason I have always enjoyed making clothing is because it is kind of like putting a puzzle together and I enjoy almost any kind of puzzle or putting together any kind of item we buy that requires "minimal" assembly skills.  Maybe it's all a part of that creative side of the brain working and maybe it's best for me not to analyze it too much and just enjoy it!  It is fun watching that creative spark in our children, isn't it?  Maybe your MIL was squelched when she was young.

          9. Ralphetta | | #25

            I agree that patterns are like puzzles and if you aren't careful about cutting out, marking,and taking the proper seam allowance they don't fit together right. We've all learned that the hard way.

          10. User avater
            ThreadKoe | | #24

            I am so glad that someone decided to ignore the negative comment and support what your daughter was interested in. So many people must have been talked out of what they wanted to really do that they feel they must now be the Negative Nelly or No Norman. Why do so many people feel they must crush the creative spirit, or put down the ideas of a budding entrepeneur? It is just as easy to say Go Ahead and Try. So much of what can be accomplished is stopped under the guise of helpful criticism. Isn't it better to say Good Start, too bad that didn't work the way you wanted, now how are you going to make it better?
            Sorry about the rant, had to get it off my chest.

          11. Ralphetta | | #26

            One problem we had to deal with was that schools, and maybe society in general. tend to keep things orderly by insisting that people prove what they know. For example: I watched her at swimming class one day. I knew that she was a good swimmer, but watched as the kids all dived off the side and raced across the pool. She was leisurely swimming toward the very back of the pack. Later, I casually asked why. She calmly explained that if you were in the front bunch you got lots of water kicked/splashed in your face. The point was, she knew she could swim well and wasn't at all concerned that the others might not realize it. Most teachers keep order by counting on the kids not wanting to look dumb/weak in front of the others. Some people spend their whole lives trying to feel that confident and good about themselves, so I didn't want to destroy that. It's very hard to encourage confidence without going overboard and creating a know-it-all smart-alec.

          12. User avater
            ThreadKoe | | #27

            It's very hard to encourage confidence without going overboard and creating a know-it-all smart-alec.It is one thing to tell someone that everything they do is great. It is another to praise someone for what they have done right and then ask them to assess what they think they could do differently. Teaching a child to think and assess work and situations will always get them ahead. The thing that is so wonderful about your daughter is that she thinks. She assessed a situation, and came up with a plan to over come a difficulty. It may not be what anyone else would have done, but she was THINKING. By explaining what she was doing, she was proving what she knew. That is a skill that is valuable. We need to encourage that, being mindful of course, that manners and rules are also taught to keep it in check. Cathy

          13. Josefly | | #29

            Thank you Ralphetta, for your comments. I'm sure I'm joined by many other grandmas who feel very privileged to watch our grandkids' talents and interests emerge. It's just good fortune to be able to see my grandchild and that he wants to come and spend time with us, so we can see it often. In reading about your MIL, I was reminded that my father had very rigid ideas about gender roles and "proper" behavior, and I wonder how he would react if he saw how much sheer joy my Tyler gets from sewing on the machine - honestly, it's as if he's riding a roller-coaster. It may well be a temporary interest, but I think the experience offers a lot to him that he can put to use later.Ed: I responded before I read all the interesting posts that followed. You've really sparked a discussion that touches people deeply. I was especially delighted to read that your daughter managed to be confident of her abilities without demanding that everyone recognize them - that's a wonderful accomplishment!

            Edited 8/6/2008 9:25 pm ET by Josefly

          14. rodezzy | | #21

            Wow, He Is very industrious.  What bright child.  I know you are proud.  He has a great imagination and follow through ambition.  Great.

      2. rodezzy | | #12

        Wow, he really got down to the details of it all.  Embellished and all.  Yes, ladies and gentlemen, this is our new designer!!!  Wonderful.

        1. Josefly | | #14

          Thank you for your sweet comments. I guess you can imagine I'm quite proud of my little engineer/designer. Please read my message to Threadkoe about our other project.

  4. KharminJ | | #30

    Hi Josefly!I was just cruising the old messages - Yikes! - I love the handbag you made, and the one your Grandson made, too! When I come across photos that are "too big" to load smoothly, I just use the Back Button, the Forward Button, and TahDah! perfectly loaded pics! Computer magic, I guess - dunno why, but it works.About the lining being too big - Yup ~ very, Very slightly deeper seams will fix that problem. I guess this needs a "Tutorial Alert": Purses tend to have many seams, and just as when you alter a pattern and spread a 1" change to both sides of 4 seams, you are only moving the seamline 1/8" on each piece. The difference between OD (outside diameter of fashion fabric) and ID (inside diameter - the lining) probably totals a quarter-inch or less. When that gets divided by both sides of all seams, the difference may be only a few threads wide. When I was sewing purses for another designer, I was told to cut (or sew) the lining pieces 1/16" smaller than the outsides. Seemed excessively fiddly at the time, but once I'd tried it, it made a world of difference!Have you made another purse yet? How'd it go?Warm Bright Blessings! Kharmin

    Edited 11/9/2008 9:54 pm ET by KharminJ

    1. Josefly | | #31

      Thank you for the tips on the lining. The suggestion of 1/16" difference all around in the lining seams sounds right - it's like cutting an undercollar smaller than the collar, to allow for turn of fabric. I would assume that the use of heavier, thicker fabrics, like many upholstery fabrics, would require the lining to be even smaller. Also the tip on the photos. Hmmm. I haven't heard that before, and can't imagine why it works, but I'm going to try it.I appreciate your compliment on my bag, and on my grandson's. :>) No, I haven't made another bag yet. Maybe soon, though, for a Christmas gift. I see so many gorgeous ones made by folks here, and on other sites.eta: I just tried the back arrow, forward arrow procedure you suggested on the too-large photos in my original post. Nothing happened. The pic came up, same as before. Are you saying that when you do this the photo comes up smaller? clearer? quicker?

      Edited 11/10/2008 10:15 am ET by Josefly

      1. KharminJ | | #32

        Mornin'! Re: pics ~ I was assuming that you mean a photo is "too big" when it comes up slowly, and with big horizontal gaps- often only the top and bottom 1/4" show up. This is when the Back/Forward trick works for me. Even then, the photos usually fill up the entire message space, which is okay by me, so that details can be seen. If you're getting a little icon in the upper left corner, that's a different problem than I have ~ sorry! I don't know ... wait, try RightClick with the mouse, and select View Image, or play with the other options on your machine (where have we heard that before? LOL). There also may be a difference because *you* are the original poster, where I'm not?Dunno - soooo not the techie, here; I just know what I've figured out. I've also heard of, but never tried, using "Optimize for web" settings or checkboxes while you're playing with the photo, before you upload it. This reportedly condenses or edits down a pic from multi-megabytes to something that more computers can handle. YMMV (your mileage may vary!)FWIW, I'm using Mozilla Firefox on a Windows machine. Good luck - both sets of photos came up fine for me.Kharmin

        Edited 11/10/2008 11:03 am ET by KharminJ

        1. Josefly | | #35

          Yes, if I right-click, or command-option-click, on my iBook, the photo opens up full-screen size in another window, and I can see it without having to scroll l-r or up-down. But if I straight click, the photo is way too large for the message area on the Threads screen, and it's a pain in the neck for people to have to scroll around and imagine what the thing looks like. But the main reason I reposted the photos in a later message, in a much smaller size, is that I know some of us don't have as much speed - especially those who have to use dial-up internet - and it just takes waaaaay to long for a picture to load when it's so many kb's. So I try to reduce the size of my photos when I export them to use as attachments, either here or elsewhere. The smaller ones were about 1/10 the kb-size of the originals, and I think showed enough detail. Anyway, I'm glad you had no problem seeing the large ones, and I appreciate your suggestions on how to avoid the problem. I am barely computer literate. I'm chuckling, though. I guess "No, don't open the photos" would just make people curious enough to open them anyway.I'm trying to imagine your sherpa fabric - is it fleecy on only one side? Do you have to use an undercollar? Today I tried on a jacket sewn with a fabric that is faux suede (poly?) on one side and fleece on the other - soft and cosy and lovely. There were no facings or anything, and edges were left raw. I just reread, though, and see that you're using linen. Ooh, that sounds so gorgeous.

          Edited 11/10/2008 8:12 pm ET by Josefly

          1. KharminJ | | #37

            Yeah, the sherpa is one-sided. I've seen the faux-suede sherpa, too, but this has the flat knit showing on the back. I've actually got 2 sets to make vests out of - one is kind of dark red, with the linen rose print; the other is more like burnt orange, and the rose printed fabric is cotton, I think. The roses are both clearly home dec fabrics, and it's all from the Red Tag fabrics at JoAnn's. I try to stay away from that department as much as possible! What I have in mind is using the print as the fashion fabric, and the sherpa as the lining, cut a little large, so it "rolls" to the outside, instead of the inside. The cuddly-side-inside makes me feel all warm and fuzzy just thinking about it! Giggle Kharmin

          2. Josefly | | #38

            Oh, yes, that sounds lovely. I'm wondering how you avoid the bulk of the sherpa inside the seam allowances of the collar. Do you shave the fleecy part off the s.a.'s?I definitely want a vest like that. I'm going to keep my eyes open for a pretty print and coordinating fleece. It's chilly here today and I'd love to have it NOW.

          3. MaryinColorado | | #39

            I used to make many stuffed animals and toys, it did help me to shave the seam allowances to decrease the bulk.  Sometimes basting the seam, shaving, and then restitching with a shorter stitchlength worked better.  For knitbacked faux furs, the applique scissors with the duckbill help prevent cutting through the knit. 

            I made a reversable coat once that was sherpa on one side and fleece on the other.  It was actually too warm to wear more than a few times all winter.  The buttons always fell off the sherpa side so be sure to reinforce that area if you have buttons.  Funny, I stablized the buttonhole side well, but didn't have the foresight to do the same for the buttons.  No way did I have the patience to correct my boo boo, figured it'd end up as a permanent UFO. I just kept sewing the buttons back on and prayed I wouldn't lose one as they were really unique metal ones that coordinated perfectly. 

          4. User avater
            ThreadKoe | | #41

            Mary, sew small buttons on the underside of the garment to hold the larger buttons on!  They will stabilize the buttons and keep the thread from pulling through.  Cathy

          5. MaryinColorado | | #47

            That's an excellent suggestion!  Thanks. 

          6. User avater
            ThreadKoe | | #51

            It is better than losing lovely buttons!  Cathy

          7. MaryinColorado | | #52

            Yes definitely!  Today I feel like I've lost my "marbles",  everything I try to do isn't working and the puppy has learned to bark at the sliding glass door at every leaf that blows by.  It's so distracting.  She doesn't want to go out, just to make noise and get the big lab to go in and out.  It's a revolving door! 

            She's like a toddler now, climbing up on everything too looking for mischief, food, and "toys".  What a little pistol, she's wearing me out more than the two little neighbor girls do!  That'll teach me to skip our morning walk!  I've got that darned cold in my chest now too, phoey.  Gotta go, she's barking again........

          8. Josefly | | #43

            It's hard to imagine a coat too warm to wear in your part of the country! Did you over-lap seams, at all, or did you shave and enclose all of them?

          9. MaryinColorado | | #48

            Actually, we have pretty mild winters here in the foothills, the mountains protect us from strong winds usually and the snow melts pretty fast because of the high altitude and bright sun.  I'm a woos though and a wanna be snowbird.  I don't like it below 60 degrees. 

            I didn't have to overlap the seams, I just machine basted them, shaved the seam allowance, then stitched and overcast like a safety stitch.  If I made it now, I'd use my serger since it would cut and enclose the edges so well.  I would probably use Wooly Nylon in the serger for it's strength and coverage or maybe even regular sewing thread, loosening the tensions to allow for the thicker thread.  I use the serger more than the sewing machine for seams now. 

            If you wanted the fleece to show at the edges, you could overlap the seams and use the Coverstitch on a serger too.  Mary

      2. KharminJ | | #33

        Exactly like the smaller under-collar trick! And thank YOU for reminding me of that - I can take *that* thought to making a sherpa lined vest - I've got some lovely linen with big printed roses, and matching sherpa, and it's co-o-o-o-ld this week...K

      3. User avater
        ThreadKoe | | #34

        If you open a picture under a new tab, rather than clicking on it, it often comes up smaller.  I do not know why, it just does.  Cathy

        1. Josefly | | #36

          This thing I'm typing on is just a magic box to me. I just went back again and right-clicked on the too-large photos, so they opened in a different window. True, I could see the photos without doing any scrolling but they still fill my screen, so they're not smaller than the photos that open in the message area - the message area is just too small to display them entirely. Maybe the way I have system preferences set has something to do with my photos opening so large no matter how I click or where I open them to?But, besides wanting to avoid the scrolling issue with too-large photos, I also want to minimize the download time. The reduced size of the attachments makes them load much faster. I don't want thumbnails, though - I can't see any detail with those. Cathy, did you ever find out why you don't get the red-line spell-check on messages anymore? I still get them. I can't determine if that's because of something I've set on my computer, or what.

          1. User avater
            ThreadKoe | | #40

            Yes I did find out.  I cannot access Gatherings through Firefox right now and have to use Windows explorer.  firefox has that spellcheck feature automatically.  Windows does not.  I sent a complaint to mozilla/firefox about not getting through but have not heard back yet.  So all my bookmarks are on my firefox.  What a pain. 

            Have you tried setting your text size smaller as well for viewing pictures?  Sometimes that helps as well.  It makes everything smaller, and maybe the pictures will come up a little smaller as well.  You could set your font size back again to what you want after.   Yes, these Magic Boxes can be rather complicated when we cannot get them to cooperate with what we would like them to do what we want them to do!  tee hee   Cathy


          2. Josefly | | #42

            I hope Firefox can make whatever adjustments are necessary - I agree it's a pain to lose access to your bookmarks. I wonder if there's some way to copy and paste them from one browser's file to another...

          3. JeanM | | #44

            Yes, there is.  Somewhere there is an import button.  My friend, who knows little about computers, found a way to do it.  I have not yet downloaded Firefox so I cannot be more specific.  It could be somewhere in the set-up area.

          4. User avater
            ThreadKoe | | #45

            There is a way, but I can't seem to do it from firefox to Windows, only the other way round!  Silly hunh?  Maybe when my cough syrup wears off........Cathy

          5. JeanM | | #46

            Which you made perfectly clear.  Doh on my part.  At least you have the excuse of cough syrup; what's mine?  I have a feeling that it can't be done because to Microsoft there are no other browsers.  LOL

            Do you happen to have an external hard drive or some way to Save Favorites, then download them to Explorer?  Would it work putting it on a CD, then downloading to Explorer?  As you can tell I don't know a whole heck of a lot about this!  I did have someone download my Favorites on a flash drive because I couldn't think of anything else I would really want to save and couldn't retrieve by other means should things go wrong.  (Maybe this would be a good place to stop attempting to give advice.) :)

          6. User avater
            ThreadKoe | | #50

            Naah, It's Ok.  I'm going to keep on nagging firefox.  I just really liked their setup.  I will stick with what I have for the time being.  I will just transfer the great stuff I get from Gatherings to firefox to lookup later.   I rather like being a pain in the butt once in a while, tee hee.  Cathy

          7. MaryinColorado | | #49

            http://www.komando.com is a great resource for computer questions and issues.  She's a real computer guru and has her own radio talk show!  Mary

          8. Sancin | | #53

            Josefly - what edition of Firefox do you have? I have had no end of problems since I upgraded to version 3 and thinking to go back to version 2. If you do a search in Google by typing in Firefox. 4.. what ever the problem,(or simply problems)you will come up with some discussion lists that help solve the problem. Some worked for me, some didn't and I have a list of more to try. Unfortunately, I just cut and paste the solutions and not the sites or I would refer them to you. Good luck - it seems if it is not one thing it is another!!

          9. Josefly | | #54

            It's Threadkoe (Cathy) who's having trouble with Firefox. (I'm a Mac user and I use Safari.) But it's okay, maybe she'll see your message anyway. Out of curiosity, though, I did use my newest version of Firefox, 3.0.3, to access this forum, and noticed that it seems to balk - I had to click on the Gatherings button in the Threads home page several times, and then the transition from one page or thread to another or to the reply page seemed very slow and "jerky".I use Firefox only to access my local library system, which doesn't seem to work with Safari. I just recently downloaded this new version. Hope I don't have the same problems there.

          10. Josefly | | #55

            Cathy, Sancin's last message to me was meant for you, in case you haven't seen it.

          11. User avater
            ThreadKoe | | #56

            Thanks Josefly, I read all the messages, so I caught it.  I am actually getting used to what I am doing now.  I can go directly from my email to here, and bring up my bookmarks as if they are in another tab.  Awkward, but it works.  I am still bugging Firefox, but I guess they have a lot to fix.  I have already downloaded a lot of their updates and fixes.  Thanks for the tip tho.  Cathy

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