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Roll of the Cloth

WandaJ | Posted in Patterns on

Are there patterns you know of that take into consideration the roll of the cloth by reducing the size of the undercollar, or undersides for lapels and collars? Or, is this something that must be remembered to do (i.e., reduce by 1/8″ to 1/16″ on these specific pattern pieces) while in the process of preparing the pattern, layout and cutting of the garment? 



  1. HeartFire2 | | #1

    Yes, there are patterns that have a slightly smaller undercollar, generally if its a separate pattern piece, it will be sized differently and cut on the bias. That being said, it really depends on the particular fabric, as to how much is taken up in the turn of the cloth. A heavier, spongier double cloth wool will need a significant amount more for the take up then lets say a superfine wool.

    1. WandaJ | | #2

      Can you name some of the pattern companies that produce the patterns allowing for a turn of the cloth. How does one determine if this construction aspect has been taken into account when preparing the pattern for cutting? Or, is having to wait and see when putting the garment together, and taking it apart to recut the under collar what has to be done?

      1. HeartFire2 | | #3

        The one pattern I had in mind was one I recently looked at, its an old pattern by McCalls for a womans blouse, its a Palmer Pletsch pattern and I bet that makes a difference. The under collar is graded 1/4 inch smaller than the top collar, but its cut on the bias so it will stretch. Normally I would think 1/4 inch would be way too much as this is just shirt weight blouse fabric. but the bias comes into play. I havent made up the blouse so I can't say how it works out.In school we were taught to grade the undercollar by 1/8 inch, looking through my text book just now I did find one reference that said "or more for bulky fabrics". From the poor quality of drafting that I have noted in the commercial patterns that I have critiqued, I would say that no they do not take into account the fabric you will use.If I wanted to check the amount of fabric for the roll of cloth, if lets say I was making a coat, then I would just play with some sample of the fabric before I made up the collar.

        1. adelinarose | | #9

          Hello HeartFire2,

          Can you tell me which grading textbook you used in school. I did not have a specific text for grading? Thanks.

          Lynn (from London, Ontario Canada)

          1. HeartFire2 | | #12

            I don't think this is the best grading book out there, but what we used was
            "Grading Techniques for Fashion Design" by Jeanne Price & Bernard Zamkoff isbn- 1563670461Grading can be very confusing at first - understanding the different grading rules for the different sizes etc.I haven't used it since I got out of school, I do custom work, so I don't have to grade anything, but I guess if you do it all the time it gets easier

          2. adelinarose | | #13

            I do custom work myself. I have not used grading much since I left school either, but I do not want to lose the knowledge I gained. I like to have some reference books to use from time to time. I think the measurements are pretty standard. Thanks for the info.

      2. Teaf5 | | #4

        You don't really need to cut it any differently; you can cut them the same size, and then make the adjustment at the neck edges while pressing it after turning it right side out. 

        I'm sure that manufacturers measure and cut the under collar precisely so that they don't end up with a lot of waste, but it's not difficult to trim off an additional quarter inch or so on a single garment.  Especially on expensive, bulky fabrics, I like to have a little extra room in the seam allowances before grading and trimming so that I can account for ravelling/seam finishes.

  2. crazydog | | #5

    have tried Cecelia Podolak's patterns, she has a few jacket patterns. She does draft for the turn but did not (!!) suggest that the undercollar be cut on the bias. I have to try to remember and as cutting out is my least favourite thing to do....I agree with one of the other respondents about testing by manipulating the fabric. That's your best bet, and if you cut a little too big you can trim. Her company is Material Things (Canada).

    1. User avater
      Thimblefingers | | #6

      Burda Patterns often uses the top collar, under collar pattern pieces where the undercollar is cut smaller.  I don't think I've ever made any of their jackets where this hasn't been the case (Vogue also - but maybe because I don't use the "easy" patterns).  Some of their blouses also have it.  Any well-drafted jacket pattern should have this; I would think twice about using a jacket pattern that used the same piece for top and bottom as it would make me think the drafting was poorly done.

      As someone else suggested, if the pattern doesn't have top and under collars, I just trim the under collar after I cut it out.  I do this on every collar - also on neckline and armhole facings, collar stands, patch pocket and flap linings, some underlinings and shaped cuffs (probably other areas but I can't think of them right now).


      1. WandaJ | | #8

        Thanks for the tips on various parts of the garment where room for turn of the cloth is needed. Here-to-fore, I had not thought of areas other than the lapel, or front of a jacket.

    2. WandaJ | | #7

      I've seen those patterns but I have never used them. Do you like them?

  3. solosmocker | | #10

    I like to cut the undercollar appx an eighth of an inch smaller but also cut it with a seam in the center. Each half is then cut on the bias in a mirror image so the grains are the exact same and will roll consistently. Hope this makes sense.

    1. WandaJ | | #11

      Yes, it does make sense. If I could keep all of the tips in-mind when laying out a pattern, I'd be much better than I am. On that note, I recently jotted down on a paper separate from the pattern what steps I would incorporate into the pattern's directions in order to construct a jacket. It was interesting, and could serve as a really good guide to fine garment construction.

      What I need to add is the a to z of altering the pattern, i.e., prior to the construction process.

    2. textyles | | #14

      I've always liked the 2 piece under collar too, and if in doubt about how much smaller to cut it, I'll cut both the same width, pin them together at the neck edge. I then drape them the way they'll sit in the finished garment and immediately see how much to trim off the under collar so that it will roll well.

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